In the second part of this Q&A interview with the TRC’s George Dudley, the world’s #1 trainer talks about medication, motivation, family, his best horses, the Ortiz brothers - and his fondest memories in racing (so far).
Read part 1 here
You have always been a ‘water, hay, oats’ trainer – how welcome is the introduction of the Horseracing Integrity and Safety Act of 2020?
It is not going to affect someone like me because I don’t really do any vet work. I’m not against vets – we have a wonderful vet practice that works with us, and several equine hospitals that we use for diagnostics. Without them, I would not be sat here talking with you. They are an absolute necessity and a huge asset to the industry. They shouldn’t be looked at in a bad way, at all.
Someone might be reading this and say, “Oh well, when you have that many horses and all the best horses, of course you can give them a break. Some of us can’t.” Well, I didn’t always have that. I started with ten horses, and it’s not easy to stop. You are always worried about everything from financials to expanding the business, but you can’t worry about that, you have to do what is best for the horse and then everything will fall into place. Again, Frankel taught me that, and it has worked really well for us.
I don’t want to hear that you can only do that with good horses. You can give me 50 claiming horses and I won’t have to inject them up. I will find a way to stop, go, bring them back and get the most out of them. I am not the only guy that can do that.
The sticky thing is the Lasix. It’s a tough one. We do have a fair amount of horses that bleed over here, particularly in the dirt races, which can be very stressful on the horses, especially if it is deep sand. I do believe that it is a bit bred into our breed. I believe that it benefits the horses much more than it harms them. I am not even sure that can harm them.
Am I kicking and screaming, saying “don’t take away my Lasix”? No. We have already won Grade 1 races since they took them away, in stakes races, and we are going to win plenty more. I have pretty sound horses because I am able to put a stop on them. I am not training a bunch of sick or lame ones that might be more prone to bleeding.
I do see a fair amount of horses here that do bleed – even at a young age – so I think that it’s a broader conversation that needs to be backed up by data. If it is proven in a few years that there is less bleeding without the Lasix, then I am happy, and it improves the breed that way, but there is also a scenario where more horses are bleeding [without the use of Lasix] and not racing, which could cause owners to stop buying.
I’m a data person and need to see information before I make decisions.
If the only objective is to only allow non-bleeding horses in the gene pool moving forward, and not allowing those that do to race, then it has the potential to be financially painful to those guys that purchased a horse, who would not know this issue until it races.
You are synonymous with the brilliant Ortiz brothers [we have Irad ranked at world #4 and Jose #15]. Tell me about your relationship with them?
I cannot say enough great things about these two guys. They are impressive young men, shining examples of what you would want your sons to be. These are young guys that have tremendous talent and class. They treat everyone with respect, whether they are co-workers of mine or owners.
They have a tremendous learning curve. They pick up on things fast. They have remarkable memories and recall from the horses that they have ridden. They are just a pleasure to work with.
For any young men that have that level of success, notoriety, and wealth, it is easy not to have those attributes and change, but I don’t see that. They are dedicated to their jobs and families – they conduct themselves so impressively for their age and levels of success.
You came into racing without any nepotism or help, aside from your career as Bobby Frankel’s assistant. How do you feel – for want of a better phrase – as an outsider in the industry?
I’m happy you asked that, as I don’t get asked that very often. I feel that it was a bit of destiny that I worked with Bobby. He was much the same way and wasn’t born into the game. He was a guy that walked into the gate, like I did, and didn’t really know anybody and worked his way up. I feel it was fitting that I was able to take over from him.
I felt like it was a disadvantage when I was first coming up to see other people working within the industry that could intimidate you because they have been born into it. They have known horses from birth, as such.
The longer that I have done this and established my own success and respect from those around me, I feel it is actually an advantage [not to have been born into racing] because I have a different way of looking at my company – don’t forget the business aspect to this – or the horses and my relationships with people within the industry.
Sometimes that little edge from not really growing up in the game, basically coming in off the street and coming up from the bottom, gives you a little extra toughness in a difficult business. It teaches you that you can take some blows once in a while.
Over time, I have built so many relationships and the people within the industry have become my extended family. So, it has really changed over a course of time.
You have two daughters. Would you like them to work in the racing industry in some capacity in the future?
I could never see my 12-year-old, Ava, do anything with horses. She is not that interested in it. She has accompanied me to the races, and really enjoys going, but not so much working with the horses themselves. That is fine by me.
My 9-year-old, Andi, loves the horses. Although she has not picked up on the racing side as much yet, she has been riding for a few years and she is getting pretty good at it. I am proud of that, especially as it is something that she really took up on her own. She would be my one hope that might end up working with racehorses, but either way it is fine by me.
Up until last year, you had won four Eclipse trainer titles in a row. What motivates you to keep at the top?
I am a challenge-oriented person. I think that you need to be if you want to reach great heights. There are still races that we haven’t won – I would love to win the Kentucky Derby, an important race at Ascot, the Travers Stakes. We want more Breeders’ Cups, more Horses of the Year.
There is always something that we can accomplish, and it surely drives me. The day that I wake up and I’m not driven for some goal as a trainer, is the day that I won’t do it anymore.
Looking back, what are the best horses that you have trained?
Wow, that’s a tough question.
Certainly Lady Eli is one. Sistercharlie won seven Grade 1s. Brick And Mortar was a Horse of the Year. Rushing Fall was another of those that won four years in a row.
Those are really some of the very best horses that we have had and developed. I had the opportunity to work with some very good horses that were transferred over to me later in their careers, such as Flintshire for one season. He was an outstanding, rare horse to work with.
We have had some good dirt horses to work with, like Good Magic, who happened to run into Justify when he finished second in the Derby. In most years that horse probably would have won. We had a Preakness winner with Cloud Computing (see video above), who was a very special horse for me despite not having a very long career. To win our first American Classic dirt race with him was really memorable.
Those are to name a few, as we have been lucky enough to be connected with so many great horses and won many great races over the years.
You mentioned Flintshire, who came to your stable after being campaigned in Europe by André Fabre, and more recently you received the John Gosden-trained Royal Ascot-winner Without Parole. What differences do you see in those horses than if you were taking on the training from, say, Baffert or Pletcher?
Yeah, it is a totally different situation when they come to me from Europe. Those two you mentioned came to me from two of the greatest trainers of all time, so they obviously came in very good condition. You know what you are getting, and those horses are therefore pretty straightforward.
I don’t get many horses transferred to me domestically. There is not a whole lot of trade between the top trainers, I don’t think. It’s not something I have a lot of experience with, surprisingly, but it is mostly getting ones from out of the country.
You know when you get these horses from top yards there is not much to improve on! Frankel would always tell me when we would get these horses from top trainers: “From these trainers, you are not trying to recreate the wheel, you are not even trying to make them better, just try to keep them where they are.”
There are, of course, other trainers that we get horses from at different stages in their careers that we would be looking to improve on.
What is your favourite racecourse?
To grow up a couple of miles away from the track makes Saratoga by far my favourite track.
Other ones I like going to are Keeneland and Arlington, which I am really sad to hear might be over now. We have really focused on that meet at Arlington. We have won the Million four times, the Beverly D six times. It’s an honour to win those prestigious races at Arlington and I would hate to see that beautiful track gone.
Yes, my favourite track is naturally Saratoga, but the most beautiful track I have ever seen is Arlington Park. It would be such a shame to see it go. I love Santa Anita and I think it is a wonderful spot for the Breeders’ Cup. I think that it plays fair to everybody, the weather is usually really good. We are really lucky to have several tracks over here that are all really nice.
Do you think that the Breeders’ Cup is worthy of its strapline Racing’s ‘World Championships’?
I do. Those races are all hard to win. We have been lucky to have a lot of success in them [he has 15 BC winners to his name so far], we have also had some disappointments in them. They have become really international events, and it really is worthy of that name.
What is your fondest memory in your career?
I have had so many great memories down the years. Winning my first race at Saratoga in my first full year of training. Again, in that first year, we won at the Breeders’ Cup - Maram won the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Fillies Turf at Santa Anita Park [in 2008], beating a horse trained by Aidan O’Brien [Heart Shaped] by a nose. Who would have that all those year’s later Aidan and I would be contesting a lot of the big races?
Bringing Lady Eli back from near death with laminitis to win the Diana Stakes right here at Saratoga. She was given a very low percentage chance to live, let alone race.
Another highlight is Bobby’s Kitten. You talk about Frankel the horse, well, Mr Ken Ramsay allowed me to name one horse from a crop after Bobby Frankel. For him to come down the hill at Santa Anita in the Turf Sprint and beat No Nay Never right on the wire was amazing (see video above). I had Frankel’s former main assistant, Humberto Ascanio, and his family with me in the box. There was so much pressure on me, as it was right out in Southern California, where Bobby made his name. That was a big one for me, and one I really wanted.
Bricks And Mortar winning the Breeders’ Cup Turf to cap off a horse of the year campaign: I remember that special feeling.
There have been so many memories. Another one is taking my daughter, Ava, to the Arlington Million in 2019. We flew in – there are four stakes on the card and we won them all. She doesn’t really go a lot to the races and for us to win all four was a proud moment for my daughter, to fly in there and be a hero for the day. To make memories like that, and hopefully many more in the future, is one of those things that drives you.